Saturday, April 25, 2009

Breaking News: MSS wins out in the end

Rawr gives data that made two bloggers (Marino and Tarskin) reach different conclusions based on the same data, this became very clear when i come home semi drunk yesterday and read Marino's latest post where he employed a GCD based excel analysis which can be found here.

The key to his analysis were the threat numbers taken from Rawr for the seperate moves and with those he concluded that iMangle creates more threat then MSS, a conclusion which kept me awake most of the night (sad, yes i know) untill i hit my eureka moment somewhere at 6 AM.

My eureka moment basically was : "How can i use Rawr data and conclude X and he uses Rawr as well and concludes Y?"

To do this i must first say which part of the Rawr data i used, personally i used the Highest TPS Rotation values from Rawr as a support for my idea, this gives the following numbers (based on my toon):

0/55/16 (MSS Build) = 3327 DPS / 7303 TPS
0/60/11 (iMangle Build) = 3286 DPS / 7183 TPS

This means that according to Rawr's Highest TPS Rotation MSS wins out easily, yet these numbers are very different from Marino's. It took me untill 11 AM this morning to find the flaw in his work, his excel sheet does not include Maul hits and Lacerate DOT ticks and i have notified him of this hoping he'll redo the excellent methodical analysis (which he did).


Master shapeshifter is 1.3% better then Improved Mangle for threat, to see the complete math go to Marino's reworked post here.


Marino said...

I kept you up that late o.O.Yes I will redo it now.

Marino said...

I did the math again, and the difference is 1.35% in threat.
I send you the spreadsheets in the mail.

I however have no idea what kind of rotation rawr is using for it's calculation.

The 2 possible rotations I posted on my blog show much more tps then rawr suggests. I made a spreadsheet not counting average damage, but damage per hit and that was way lower.

It might be worth asking Astrylan (sorry if I misspelled it) what the rotations in rawr are.

Anyway, taking the rawr values for MMS the threat done is 6852. For iManlge the threat done is 6736. (All with my data).

So that is 6736 / 6852 = 98.3%
The difference is 1.7% while my calculated difference is 1.35%

Tarskin said...

So we can finally publish our official statement:

1. Untill you have idol of the corruptor take MSS.
2. When you have idol of the corruptor take iMangle.

Marino said...

If you are looking for a balance yes :)
If you want max threat get iMangle AND MSS. If you want max damage reduction, drop them both and get FA.

Kalon said...

I just can't justify wrecking such a smooth rotation for .12% dodge. I mean, you're saying that it's better to take imangle over MSS but then you're not taking feral aggression, right? And that's worth 4-5% mitigation by itself on physical attacks, which is a huge trump over either MSS or iMangle in terms of reduction in damage taken.

Even not considering that, I don't see how iMangle ever would beat out MSS. Yes, more crit and dodge is kinda nice. More damage on all DoTs, more damage on multimob pulls, more damage on everything...that utility beats a cooldown reduction in my mind.

To be fair, I'm not planning on taking either. :) Threat/DPS is the least of my concerns in bear form, and nothing in Ulduar has so far made me think that threat should be a big issue. Hodir was about it on his hard mode, and even that doesn't appear to be that bad as long as you're managing your NPC debuffs.

Tarskin said...

I'm lucky to have a protection warrior offtank who has the demoralizing shout talents so ^_^

The main thing Marino and Me were crafting about is which of the two choices offered bigger threat (in the end) but that if you have to choose for either one it has to be MSS if you don't have the idol and imangle if you do.